Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

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Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 13/04/13, 01:46 pm

Hi, as mentioned I'm a Swed who got stuck on this page and all exciting projects and pictures.

Here's my situation. I got a -87 GT-i 1.3 DOHC that I will make my project car. And also i got an -88 donation car, and also much parts from an -89 that was ment to be a mini project. And last but least I actually got a swift converted mini too. All mentioned is to be seen at this blog: (swiftbuild.helipop.com) as also will act as my project page for general publishing. But I guess all the good things as help and information will take place at this forum with a little help from you guys.



What am I up to then?! Well the reason for this thread is to try to find all the necessary info on what fits to what. This is my goal and main questions that needs to be answered in order to plan my project and search for parts:

1. I want to get past 250whp as my project get finished. And from what I understand is that I need to lower the comp, and maybe oring the block?!
2. Will Vitara pistons work combined with a garret gt28r turbo?
3. When hooking up with vitara pistons I read that I lower from 10:1 ratio to 7,5:1 do I want it that low, or do I need to reskim and face the top and engine block?!
4. What kind of conrods do i need to work with the piston setup and also fit the crank?
5. Do I need to change camshafts, replace bearings for crankshaft?
6. When all is fitted together I guess I need some alternative to the ecu in order to map?! the system for performace. The tuning as I get so far will be handed over to somebody that has a dynamo and will do it for me.

As you can figure, I'm all new to this kind of mod, but I'm hooked up with a quite handy workshop with milling machine, lathe, TIG, MIG, bandsaw and all that i need to make the exhaust etc.

Maybe someone could point me to some complete setup to look for (turbo, pistons, ecu, conrods, injectors).

I hope you can stand my English, and tolerate my many questions. I'm sure they will decrease while my understanding increases Wink

Cheers from sweden






helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Miniswift on 13/04/13, 10:31 pm

Hi,

Welcome!

I am also building my Mini with G13B engine as well as AWD mk1 Gti with turbo G13B engine.
I love mk1 Gtis.

What you are asking is OK but I will tell you that you will need to change cylinder head, cam drive pulley, cam belt, cover and so on.
Mk1 has 19mm belt and they will snap! I snapped mine twice and I have been lucky not damage anything in both occasions.

You will need either Supura or Evo injectors for what you are hoping to achieve.
If you use Vitara pistons, you will have 6.8:1 CR from what I have worked out.
mk1 gti has good con-rods which will be ideal if you are going for high CR turbo but you better off buying forged con-rods.
Mk2 Gti has better port size as well as inlet manifold for turbo. They increased from 97ps to 115ps in NA form as a result.
O-ringed engine block, I'm not sure if you needed but I think others will tell you better. I'm building my turbo engine myself and I hope it will be same Bhp you are hoping to get. I will have new lined with 76mm Vitara pistons from USA with some coating on.

If you are going to get 250Bhp@wheel. You will need to think about your gearbox. I have been told that Subaru Justy gearbox will be good choice as 1600 AWD Gti gearbox may be difficult to get hold of now.

So, you will need following:-
Con-rods 400
mk2 cylinder head with inlet manifold(you have it already)
cam belt drive from mk2 but use mk1 block(you have it already)
Justy gearbox(eBay)
Evo or Supura injectors(200 a set?)
after market ECU(MS or something else)
turbo manifold kit(I can make you a kit if you needed)

Good luck!

Cheers
Atchi

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 14/04/13, 12:40 am

Hi Atchi, and thanks for answer.

Now, what differs between mk1 and mk2 block? Is the non catalytic version mk1, or when do they change to mk2? Are my 88 and 89 engine mk2 while the 87 is a mk1?

Might be some stupid questions, but I'm quite new to this type of mods, and complete new to turbos. So it's gonna be challenging for me, and generate tons of question, so bare with me. =)

I figured I might keep the gearbox, but it's to weak right? Or why do i have to get the Justy one? Unfortunate the early justys never came to sweden, only the mk1 trendy version did. So in order to get some i have to ship it over seas = not cheap. Well maybe from UK since theres no custom fees in between European countries.

I will just swap the head and intake manifold right of the mk2?

I read in your thread I think, the long list of details in your car build, that you had the Supra 440cc, am I hunting the same?
And more specifically regarding ECUs, there seems to be tons of them out there, so even if i hear a brand, i still need the specifics since I'm noob Wink
The ECU programming/tweaking wont be something i can do myself huh? I guess I will have to leave the car to someone with a dynamo and right equipment..

The manifold is something I look forward to make myself if it all goes well. As i mentioned I will keep the front of the yellow wreck as a mock up to try to fit things in. I have a workmate who had a saab oild cooler from saab 9000 laying around that i could have. Maybe something that might come in handy?

You forget to mention the turbo and price, which turbo is to prefer to achieve my goal, and is it even a reasonable goal to finish in a reasonable time and amount spent?

Oring the block would be a fun task in my milling machine, so I'm willing to do it just for fun, and to learn. But if i should avoid it for some other reason I am willing to do that too Smile

Cheers!


helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 14/04/13, 09:31 am

what about the cultus intake manifold that I constantly read about, will that be a boost gainer in my project?


will this type of injectors do for example?

ebay.com/itm/4-440CC-INJECTORS-AUDI-FORD-1-8-2-3-ENGINES-ALL-SUPRA-LANCER-TALON-DSM-ECLIPSE-/171014366346?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27d140248a&vxp=mtr

helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Almondo74 on 14/04/13, 08:50 pm

apprently the cultus manifold can add upto 20hp to boost engines, or turn the boost higher
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Character sheet
first car: Swift GL

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001716634958

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Miniswift on 14/04/13, 10:56 pm

Hi,

I think Gt28 is too big.
You will need next one up from TD04 so may be TD05?
I don't know much about turbo itself. I 'm building higher Bhp engine myself, too. So... I'm still learning also.

mk1 Gti gearbox is stronger than standard mk2 Gti but not sure how much more abuse it will take.

In UK, 88/89 was mk2 Gti came to market I think.
In Japan before mk2 came out, there were mk1 ph2 which came out around october 87. This mk1 engine is same as mk2 gti engine as wek know.
It has better port design, bigger TB, camshafts, injectors, inlet manifold, exhaust manifold.... list goes on.

Mk1 block has less ribs so it may be weaker than mk2 but I think crankshaft might be better from what I heard. I know con-rods did have bearing in small ends.

I won't be using Supura injectors as I have Evo 6 injectors which might be better for my use. I'm still gathering parts at the moment, myself.
Let me know if you need any help for parts gathering for your project!

Cheers
Atchi

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 15/04/13, 12:32 am

I'm so thankful for your help and explanation Atchi.

On a Swedish tuning site I found this regarding the gt28r, which in my mind seems appropriate for my build.

///////////
Art. 1006 - GT28R

Even called: GT28BB, T28BB, GT2860R

Useful for effect range 180 - 320 Hp
Ideal cylinder volume 1.3L - 2.2L
* Oil and water cooled
* T25 flange
* Small size for fitting in small area
* Double bearings
* Suitable upgrade for: 200sx S13

Facts
Diameter Inducer 46,5 Exducer 60,0 mm
Trim 60
A/R 0,60
Turbinfacts
Diameter Inducer 53 mm
Trim 62
A/R 0,64 Internal Wastegate
///////////


Should i look for buying a cultus manifold? Is it good bang for the bucks?
Also I need some help gathering the gearbox itself. That seems to be the biggest problem in getting here, since lack of Justys in Sweden. The shipping to Sweden shouldn't be that expensive considering all the parts being shipped here from minispares and such to friends. I ordered a set of wheels and tires some years ago from an English site and that should be comparable to the weight and size getting a gearbox over here. And another problem is finding a true seller that doesn't sell me a worn out ex. =)

helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Miniswift on 15/04/13, 09:00 am

Hi,

I think a Cultus inlet is too much money for little gain in NA.
I'm not sure I will buy 1 myself. I even had one off mk1 ph2 but sold it to make profit.

Justy gearbox is very heavy as it has addition to a crown wheel to take drive off it. Well it is for 1600 Gti as I just taken it off my car yesterday!
If I could get one, I will let you know.

Cheers
Atchi

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 15/04/13, 09:12 am

The Cultus Mk2 will that work too? Or is it something special with the Mk1 ph2 as you mentioned?

Every little gain is a gain in right direction, right? Before my turboproject gets on its feet I might be on the right track if I help the NA out a bit while still having the car in traffic. I'm planning and gathering for fall/winter so until then I want to make some quick fixes while having it in traffic. And maybe in that purpose the Cultus would be a small project if it's pretty much bolt on? Or will it leave me with tons of work to make it run properly? I found one Mk2 Cultus without a valve in it (which valve btw?), is that something for me?

helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 20/04/13, 04:52 pm

Is there any place known to man where I can learn how to build intake manifold myself? I figure that if I can import one Cultus for 600$ total to Sweden, I might as well buy tubing and weld one with my AC-tig and learn something on my way there. I actually haven't seen on my engines where the injectors are placed, but from pictures I've seen it seems to be on the head itself. Am I right?

I got my new donation car to the workshop today btw. I will tear it apart as soon as possible, saving the good stuff and take the rest for recycling. It's a -88 model, will the glass fit to my MK-1 or should i throw them away too? And will I have any use of saving ECU and wire harness if I will go by megasquirt in the new MK1 lateron? I guess I will have Map sensor and airtemp meter, knock sensor. The airflow sensor won't be neccessary huh?!

I bare this thread in mind while getting inspired in making my own intake manifold, rather then buying a stock one from another car:
http://www.teamswift.net/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9156&start=350


This video shows some guy who fits a manifold with plenum together with some home made runners.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0LM7qMAVr8

Is the planum just like a chamber comparable to a compressortank? You store air in it so it will even out for each runner to take air from it while valve is opening? And then you charge the pressure up with the turbo making a pressure build up, and also regulates it with wastegate, and a map sensor? Where do the map sensor fit?

Sorry for all the questions, I'm a fast learning n00b with lot's of questions. I might get all the info by just googling it up, but what actually fit's to this kind of car and whats manageable is something you can't google that easy. I want bang for the buck, and also do as much as I can, or can't myself, until I learn. Wink

Cheers -Sweden

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Miniswift on 20/04/13, 10:03 pm

Hi,

I think you can build inlet by using other make to fit G13B inlet.
If you would like, I can send you my CAD data for an inlet flange.
You will need to have squashed pipes to make it fit nicely. Now what you are making is manifold for a Turbo set up. So, I think you can make it with a VW Golf 1.8T manifold or somethings similar.

I think checking what other make cars use for a turbo set up will be good to learn from it.
I'm making..(researching 1.8T VW to fit my G13B cut manifold). I can take a photo if you would like.

You should keep a wiring harness as even MS will use many wires.

If you are modding your mk1, mk2 glass won't fit.

Good luck!

Cheers
Atchi

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Tear apart

Post  helipop on 21/04/13, 12:50 am

Today I got the donation car to my shop. It is in bad condition, but for what I will make of it, that's not really important. I stipped out the carpets to prepare for the plasma cutter as I will cut the front end of for mock up. I will leave the engine in for now and place the front end on a pallet and throw away the rest.

The wire harness will be saved along with some instruments and speedometre cable for my mini.

Anyway, heres some pictures, btw how come it's a 19mm belt while the cam wheels are 23mm wide? Is it an MK1 belt on MK2 or is the whole car mk1 -88?!













And please share the cad file and pics, anything that helps out, helps out Wink flatland_contact@hotmail.com

Cheers

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  swifty on 22/04/13, 10:35 pm

T28 loves it check out my build thread
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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 23/04/13, 10:16 am

I'm pretty sure I've seen and got inspired by your thread swifty, you got the long list of details right? I have written down quite a few things of that list as a reference for collecting parts and to read about all the goodies and how they work.

The T28 seems quite cheap compared to the gt28r, I guess it has different bearings and such. Anyway, cheap is good, I want to perform by the buck but have reasonable quality since I'm gonna use it as my everyday car. =)

What about the Hyundai gearbox that I see in some tube clips?! Maybe it's easier to get hold of here in Sweden rather than the Justy box?! Just a thought

helipop

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  swifty on 24/04/13, 10:28 am

Yer that's it mate cheers yer I'd love a t28r but much more money spool nice and early tho not sure about the gearboxes I've never looked into the Hyundai one
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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  helipop on 01/05/13, 10:48 pm

Just some more pics from the tear apart days. Nothing fun yet though =)

http://swiftbuild.helipop.com/#post5

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  ligurt on 14/11/15, 11:10 pm

helipop wrote:The Cultus Mk2 will that work too? Or is it something special with the Mk1 ph2 as you mentioned?

Every little gain is a gain in right direction, right? Before my turboproject gets on its feet I might be on the right track if I help the NA out a bit while still having the car in traffic. I'm planning and gathering for fall/winter so until then I want to make some quick fixes while having it in traffic. And maybe in that purpose the Cultus would be a small project if it's pretty much bolt on? Or will it leave me with tons of work to make it run properly? I found one Mk2 Cultus without a valve in it (which valve btw?), is that something for me?

Hey helipop is the swift 1,3 gl 4wd same as 1,6? In other terms could be the same as justy's?
Pietro

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Re: Swedish new/old Swift fan getting ready for boost, garret, vitara?!

Post  Miniswift on 15/11/15, 10:47 am

Hi,
Did I managed to send you CAD drawing?
I have been very busy with my work and I have a memery like a gold fish!

Cheers
Atchi

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